For those who like to put sex before true love go along to the Valentines Mask Party at Club One Seven Sauna. 14 February 2012.
For those who like to put sex before true love go along to the Valentines Mask Party at Club One Seven Sauna. 14 February 2012.
Cluboneseven Chiangmai have announced new prices from 1st December, 2011
Operate time:
Sunday – Friday Open 11:30 to midnight
Saturday Open 11:30 to 06:00
Prices
Monday – Thursday Entrance fee 200 THB
Time: 11:30 – 13:00 Get 2 Free Passes
(use only on Mon – Thu)
- 1 Free Pass use from 11:30 to 13:00
- 1 Free Pass use from 11:30 to 16:00
Time: 13:00 to 16:00 Get 1 Free Pass
(use only on Mon – Thu)
- 1 Free Pass use from 11:30 to 16:00
Time: 16:00 to 00:00 No Free Pass
Friday Entrance fee 240 THB
Time: 13:00 to 16:00 Get 1 Free Pass
(use only on Mon – Friday)
- 1 Free Pass use from 11:30 to 16:00
Time: 16:00 to 00:00 No Free Pass
Saturday Entrance fee 240 THB
Time: 11:30 to 06:00 No Free Pass
Sunday Entrance fee 240 THB
Time: 11:30 to 06:00 No Free Pass
Operate time for Sauna room and steam room on Saturday:
Sauna 11:30 – 17:30 / 19:30 – 01:30 / 03:00 – 04:30
Steam 17:00 – 23:30 / 02:00 – 04:30
From 1st January 2012, you must present your membership card every visit. Lost membership cards, can be renewed for only 70 THB. From 1st January 2012, membership cards will cost 117 THB
what a confusing price list.
Very confusing !!
Very confusing !!!
Maybe desperation, I think !!!
Absolutely pathetic! How the hell they think anyone will understand that lot I’ve no idea. Basically making it even more expensive and less affordable for your average Thai. Seems they’re going back on their later responses to me, contradicting the first response that they were not interested in young Thais or farang, or something similar.
With high season kicking in this week in Chiang Mai, and Loy krthong only days away, this is part two of our series about where to find gay sex in Chiang Mai, and what to expect if you are a first time visitor here. This part looks at the commercial gay sex scene: Go-Go bars, Karaoke and massage. The final part will cover freelance hustlers.
So, what’s available for the horny gay visitor, with high expectations of a vibrant commercial sex scene? Chiang Mai’s four Go-Go bars, Adam’s Apple, Free Guy, New My Way and Circle Pub, are best described with the cliché “same same but different”. Though none are real Go-Go bars, but rather host bars with shows, they all have similar types of guy working there, who are almost exclusively Shan from Burma (see later), and prices are similar”. Hosts are dressed in street clothes (Jeans, T shirt) or shirt and tie style uniforms rather than skimpy underwear. The shows run for an hour or two. Quantity and quality depends on the number of customers and available guys so can vary a lot from night to night. There are no live sex shows though most include some nudity and some Lady Boy cabaret acts: typically sequined frocks and lip syncing to big diva songs.
But there are differences:
Adam’s Apple Club
Chiang Mai’s oldest host bar, originally conceived by Mohammad, a charismatic and worldly wise Lebanese entrepreneur, who put gay bars on the map in Chiang Mai. He is still proprietor of the gay “Lotus Hotel” across the road, with its popular “Garden Bar” and restaurant.
After being closed several years for a complete rebuild and makeover “Adam ’s Apple” is now owned by Todd, an outgoing American from L.A. who’s personality defines the club. It’s smart, with a modern, almost clinically clean environment and atmosphere, state of the art light and sound systems and smooth service. The show includes several cabaret routines with some of Chiangmai’s better Katoey acts, some nude go-go, with one or two boys dancing, and erotic dance sequences with nudity. It’s always been popular with tourists given its long reputation and foreigner ownership. But, Thai customers like it too, especially weekend visitors from Bangkok
For Thai customers this is Chiang Mai’s premier club and has several muscle boy staff that appeal to both the Thai Gays and Thai ladies who flock there at weekends. Although smart and clean, the décor is rather chintzy. Professionally run it has a slick show with two performances a night, but the prices are on the high side. It is possibly the least appealing bar for foreigners unless you want muscle guys.
The stage at Circle Pub - glittering for show time
Free Guy
“Free guy” is the most laid back club, replacing proficient management with fun and smiles. Their biggest claim is “no ladyboys” and the show is all boy next door types, with almost every act being a more or less imaginative scenario for the participants to remove their clothes and demonstrate what they have to offer! The catwalk style stage makes sure everyone gets a great view and between acts they have three boys Go-Go dancing in sexy underwear.
“Free Guys’” Show now starts at 10:00 p.m. and recent reports all say it’s fun with lot’s of new bar boys.
New My Way
Re-modelled for last year’s high season, performers now descend down some stairs onto the stage, “New My Way” is always a lively place. The show is long, from about 10 p.m. to midnight, and has a variety of cabaret, erotic nude acts and dancing. The show also has a couple of new surprises. “New My Way” is quite compact which makes it always seem full and adds to a good atmosphere.
For addresses and more details of Host Bars and other venues check out our map, or visit www.radchada.com
Another choice which is open later than the go-go bars is Karaoke. We recommend Barocco or Relax where the drinks are at normal prices, though the drink selection is very Thai: limited to large beers or whiskey bottle/mixer sets. Both have a large selection of waiters you can “off”; they also have many gay Thai customers some of whom are keen to meet foreigners. These places don’t get busy until after midnight. You can read more about Relax – the most fun gay bar in Chaing Mai here
One surprise for visitors to Chiang Mai, which makes the commercial sex scene stand out from places like Bangkok and Pattaya is that there are very few Thai guys working in Chiang Mai’s bars. Nearly all the bar boys are Shan refugees from nearby Burma (Myanmar), in particular from the Shan state, the South Eastern part of Burma bordering Thailand, Laos and China. If you plan to meet guys from Chiang Mai’s commercial bars it is worth taking some time to understand about Shan people, as you’ll soon find out, they are not the same as Thais, and we mean that in a good way.
Ethnically the Shan people are part of the Tai group which has origins spreading from Yunnan province in China. They are also known as Tai Yai (Meaning Big Tai). They Speak their own language, Shan, and have a rich culture which is quite different to Thai. They seem more muscular, with harder more masculine facial features when compared with the softer, sometimes almost effeminate appearance of the classic Northern Thai male.
Sexy Guys from The Shan State
Part of the Golden Triangle, the Shan state was for years under the control of Opium Drug Lords, such as Khun Sa, and remains one of the most lawless and dangerous parts of Burma far from Yangon (Rangoon) and Napyidaw (the new capital). Military forces of the ruling Junta have renewed clashes with the Shan State Army and the United Wa State Army. A common tactic of the Junta is to destroy whole Shan villages killing those who can’t flee, or detaining them as forced labour. The result: a mass influx of Shan into Northern Thailand, with a steady migration to refugee camps along the border and then to Chiang Mai, the nearest urban centre, in search of work.
Their persecution doesn’t end here as they are tolerated but not welcomed or appreciated by the Thai authorities. A source of cheap labour for Chiang Mai’s virulent construction industry, many are paid only 150 Bt ($5) for a day’s hard labour, and are constant targets of Police harassment. No wonder scores of young Shan males try to make a living in Chiang Mai’s gay bars, even though most are straight and gay people are not accepted by Shan culture in the way Thai culture embraces them. Few speak any English so it’s hard to ask those you meet in the bars about their backgrounds and personal stories, many of which are quite horrific.
You can find out more about the Shan in our other articles, or by following links on our side bar to various Shan and Burma websites such as Shanland.org.
If host bars and Karaoke aren’t your thing an alternative is gay massage parlours, of which there is an abundance spread across town so there’s plenty of choice. See our guide for details www.radchada.com this currently lists seventeen venues that are good for a massage with the all-important Happy Ending 
.
Facilities at the Blue's Club Massage for Men in Chiang Mai
You can also check out our other articles on the male massage scene in Chiangmai here. Compared with the host bars, you will find many more gay Thai guys working in the massage places and they are very willing to please you. Local gays are quite shy about working in host bars where they may be spotted by friends and peers, whereas massage places are discreet with lower visibility.
Massage at One 2 Come in the VIP room including Jacuzzi
That concludes the second part of this series. The final article will look at where to find freelancers and the risks involved.
Please be aware that prostitution is illegal in Thailand in accordance with the Prevention and Suppression of Prostitution Act, B.E. 2539 (1996) This article is for information purposes only, it is not an incitement to commit illegal acts and readers are responsible for their own actions. Please refer to the terms and conditions of use for this website. Please also note that, in Thailand, the penalties for foreigners having sex with someone under the age of eighteen are severe.
We’re almost in to November, the magnificent cool season weather is with us and party time starts next week with the Loy Kratong festival which proclaims the start of the high season for tourists. First time gay visitors to Chiang Mai are often not quite sure what to expect. Their pre-conceptions of the gay scene in Thailand will likely have been set by previous visits to the decadent go-go bar scenes of Soi Twilight or Bozytown, or places like Silom’s DJ station and Babylon. Yet everything else they read about Chiang Mai informs them of an ancient city of culture, temples, and a laid back, peaceful lifestyle. So what can they expect?
This article is the first in a short series providing an introduction to gay sex in Chiang Mai; how and where to find it and what to expect. This first part will cover the non-commercial scene. Part two will cover the commercial scene host bars, Karoke and massage and part three will cover freelance hustlers.
Wandering around Chiang Mai you’ll soon get the impression there are more than the average percentage of gays in the local population, especially students attending the many local colleges and universities. They’re everywhere: in the big shopping malls, coffee shops, night markets and other student hang outs all over town. What you won’t find, is the big gay scene with gay discos and clubs that are common place in the western world. Here gay people are accepted and haven’t grown up with much homophobia and prejudice. Gays go out to bars and clubs with friends, of all sexual persuasions without issue, for Thais there is little demand for gay specific venues.
Inevitably, some places are more popular with young gay Thais; top of the list is “Mandalay Bar”, a huge Thai style club with live music in the old city nicknamed Mandagay. Another is “Warm Up” on the trendy Nimandahemin Road frequented by more affluent students, there are plenty of other fun bars in this area too. Whilst crowded with local gays, for the visitor, unless from the younger generation and going with friends, your fun in these places maybe limited to watching others enjoy themselves!
These two articles Guide to night clubs in Chiang Mai and Chiang Mai Nightlife have information on some of Chiang Mai’s other nightclubs/discos though we don’t entirely agree with some of their assessments. Fabrique is not attractive for gay people, Spicy which has moved to a new location used to be popular with the late night gay crowd but recent reports say it’s becoming quite homophobic. Infinity is cool and it’s right round the corner from the fun Tawan Deang and the chic Chalerm Krung. Bubble re-opens officially tonight, this was another popular place with gays with a mixture of people having fun and hustlers, but died a death. Time will tell if the gay crowd returns. Hot Shots (upstairs from Bubble) has always remained open and retained a small gay following. Check out our Chiang Mai Gay Map to find these and other venues.
If you want to go to these, and many similar places, make some Thai friends elsewhere and get them to take you. Visiting one of the non-commercial scene gay bars such as Soho Bar, or Yokkadok and chatting with the friendly staff is one way of getting introductions.
Another great way to meet gay guys is GayRomeo.com It’s extremely popular with Thai guys in Chiang Mai so it shouldn’t take you long to hook up! If you don’t have a lap-top or internet gadget there are plenty of internet cafés all over Chiang Mai. Two notes of caution, firstly follow the Saftey Guidelines and secondly, you might avoid taking your new friend to known gay places. A lot of guys you meet online are well known around town and you could save you or him some embarrassment 
.
Yokka Dok Bar - the only gay bar inside the old city
A good afternoon or evening’s relaxation and some fun can be found at Chiang Mai’s two gay saunas, both accommodated in quaint old Lanna Style Teak Houses. “Club One Seven”, which is also a Guest House, enjoys a picturesque setting on the river south of the city centre. Whereas, Chiang Mai institution “House of Male” can be found behind the “Kad Suan Kaew” shopping mall. Tuesday’s “Buddy Night” at House of Male, where two get in for the price of one, is particularly popular with students.
The pool at Club One Seven
In the next part of this series we will look at the Commercial Gay venues in Chiang Mai. Meanwhile, enjoy Chiang Mai and don’t forget to play safe. Remember the rate of HIV infection is relatively high among gay people here, some suggest especially among those who frequent Saunas, to avoid unwanted holiday souvenirs be sure to use a condom and practice safe sex!
still waiting for part2
Good job, thank you. By the way what happened to gayinchiangmai.com ? cant reach it directly only from radchada.com
Since our last report the floods have receded quickly in Chiang Mai and life is more or less normal again. Indeed, we are starting to see an all round improvement in the weather as we head towards cool season. This week has produced a lot of sunshine and cooler night time temperatures in the very pleasant low twenties degrees C. Rain has been limited to the odd light shower.
Flood waters receded from the effected areas such as the Night bazaar and Changklan areas quite quickly and this week the clean up operation has been in full swing. See the pictures below from some of the gay venues in the effected area for what they had to cope with.
From the reports we have, all the effected gay businesses have now reopened. The worst effected, Club One Seven re-opened yesterday, although they say it will take a little longer to re activate some facilities, such as the swimming pool. Meantime, they have some great promotional offers running to get people back.
Although more rain was forecast for the last week at the end of tropical storm Nalgae, it has passed to the South and creating more problems for Bangkok whilst Chiangmai escaped. The outlook for Chiang Mai is now looking good; hopefully the worst is now over for this year and we can look forward to the fabulous weather that defines our cool season.
Unfortunately, the same is not true for Bangkok. Ayutthaya province has seen extreme flooding this week with even some of the country’s major industrial estates under water causing losses estimated at billions of Baht. With high tides set to peak in the gulf of Thailand with next week’s full moon, it seems highly probable Bangkok will be badly affected in the coming days. We understand last night also saw torrential rains and flash flooding in Pattaya.
Maybe for those visiting or living in the Bangkok area or Chon Buri/Pattaya and surrounds this is the perfect time to take a few days break from the weather calamity and come to Chiang Mai. It’s business as usual here in Chiang Mai, the only problems for visitors is flooding in the central region means all trains from Bangkok are currently suspended. The bus service is erratic, and has to make long detours due to the Asia Highway being interrupted at several points in Ayutthaya. But, plenty of seats are available on flights in the next few days; where there’s a will there’s a way You can shop around to get some great hotel deals too, you might even try Club One Seven!
But do spare a thought for those businesses worst affected by the floods and pop in to say hello:
Club one Seven – Guest house and Sauna
One 2 Come – Massage for men by men
Victory Massage
Blues Club – Gay Massage
His Club – Male Massage
Plenty of cute Northern Thai guys in these places are waiting to meet you, like the gang of hot young things below from One 2 Come:
I will be flying to Chiang Mai this Friday – please wish us good luck that we get there with little disruption – can’t wait to socialise and meet new guys last time i was there you were all very friendly and so nice
After what seems to have been an interminably long rainy season this year, we were thinking the worst was over as we approach the end of September, but it was not to be. Following skillful management of the Ping river by the irrigation department all year, it finally overcame all and burst it’s banks in downtown Chiang Mai yesterday afternoon. Following heavy rains up north, and reservoirs already filled to capacity, the problem was compounded by water releases from major dams above Chiang Mai necessary to prevent them being breached.
With the river now running at 1.2 Meters above flood level, water has been pouring into low lying areas around the river for at least 24 hours now. Flooded areas in the city include the Night Bazaar and Changklan road, though areas to the South and East such as Nong Hoi and Wat Kat have been worst effected.
We heard lot’s of conflicting stories of what was happening so last night we sent out our intrepid reporters to wade through the waters and see what was going on first hand. Here are some photos:
Changklan Road and the main night Bazzar area was thigh deep in muddy brown water and a strong current of water was rushing up Loi Khro road from the river. Down at the river it was worse with the river flowing very fast and only just passing under the iron bridge at the end of Loi Kroh. The flooding to the East side was even worst, though our attention was momentarily diverted by the squad of hunky Mae Jo university student volunteers filling sand bangs wearing just shorts (sorry, no pictures of that scene 
).
At the night Bazaar Thapae Soi 1 was flooded almost up to Thapae road (which was O.K.). The Night Bazaar itself had a major sandbagging operation going on which was keeping water out of the lower levels, successfully so far. At the Sleaze alley bars the water was not inside yet and the bars were open and even had a couple of customers, though you have to wade through the water to get there.
So what is the effect of other gay businesses in town? Probably worse hit is Club One Seven who should change there description from, “on the river” to “in the river”. We haven’t checked but One-2Come massage is almost certainly flooded as it has been in previous years, Likely effected are other massage places in the area: His Club, Blues Club and Victory, though as all of these have massage rooms upstairs the immediate effect on business is limited.
Flooding at Club One Seven Guest house
For more pictures see Club one Seven on Facebook Regrettably due to the floods Club one Seven will be closed for at least 3 days to allow the water to subside and the clean up to be completed. If you have any questions, contact Khun Tang at 0818688417
Since last night we know the water level at Loi Kroh road has risen and reached the Thai Boxing Stadium which may effect the bars there, and also Kampahangmuang Gallery and 2Brothers Massage, but this is on the limit of the flooding so far, so should not cause them vast problems. However, the river levels have not dropped significantly today and are forecast to rise tonight if more reservoir water is released so it could be these bars have to close for a day or so, or at best the customers will get wet feet . Yokka Dok, near Thapae is open normally.
Elsewhere in town the flooding has had no effect, except for higher traffic from people avoiding blocked roads. All the bars and venues in Chang Puek, Santitham, Huay Kaew and Nimannheminda areas are operating normally.
Another update to our Gay guide is 5 on Changmoi, a new spa and massage situated on Changmoi Soi 3 in the Thaphae area.
5 on Chiangmoi - Massage and Spa for men by Men
see their facebook page for pictures of some of the attractive young men who work their
The July Issue of Thai Puan, the free Gay Thailand community magazine, is now available at gay venues in Chiang Mai. This edition includes an article about Chiang Mai – “Sex in the city” describing where to go for some fun in the city.
You can also read Chiang Mai’s gay Go-Go Bars: Adam’s Apple, Circle Pub, Free Guy, New My Way and Power Boys, as well as information about gay male massage parlours, Saunas and Thai gay favourites such as Mandalay Bar.
Other features in this edition include: “An Issan road trip”, “Samui Top to bottom” and all the regular news and features from Bangkok and Pattaya.
We came across this video on U-Tube for MaleAvenue an outcall massage service that, according to their publicity, also has masseurs in Chiang Mai.
Quote: All male buddies are selected for their good manners, good massages, pleasant personalities and submissive.
We don’t know anything about them but thought our readers might enjoy the video. Please let us know how it went if anyone tries them.
According to the site statistics our directory page for Chiang Mai’s gay massages is by far the most popular with thousands of hits per month. We assume this is because visitors know where the main bars are but are always looking for new massage experiences. There are so many in Chiang Mai now you’d need a long stay to visit them all. To help our visitors we though we’d do this article by way of an update.
Chiang Mai’s massage shops offering offering massage “for men by men”, in gay parlance often know as a “rub and tug”, are a great alternative to go-go bars with their many straight Tai Yai boy hosts. In the massage places you are sure to find friendly gay masseurs among the selection of handsome men you can choose from, that can provide a good massage with a happy ending whatever way you like it! Massage shops usually open early afternoon too, if you want to avoid the late night factor of the bars. Many types of massage service are available and, in addition to the massage charge, you are expected to give a tip directly to your masseur, usually in the range 500-1000 Bt depending on the services provided.
Cute Gay Massage Boy at One 2 Come Massage in Chiang mai
Although a little way out of town, off Chang Klan road near the Holiday Inn Hotel, the aptly named One 2 Come massage parlour is highly recommended for gay visitors. The neat cottage style building is discreetly located in a nice garden on a small soi offering maximum privacy. Unlike most of the massage venues in Chiang Mai, One 2 Come has en suite bathrooms with showers in every massage room and their VIP room even includes a large Jacuzzi. The beer garden rounds off the experience as you can relax with a beer before or after your massage and get to know your masseur.
Massage at One 2 Come in the VIP room including Jacuzzi
Close by is the newly opened Club One Seven boutique guest house and sauna located in an old teak house right on the river. Also in that area are other massage parlours: His Club, Blues Club and the recently opened Victory Massage.
Facilities at the Blue's Club Massage for Men in Chiang Mai
Closer to town, there are more massage choices near the night bazaar area. Hidden in the small sois is The Wall massage, which is tastefully decorated in a Thai style (some of Bon Tong’s favourite boys work here). Another nearby option is Classic House, or Two Brothers near the Loy Kroh Muay Thai complex where you can also find the fun packed Marina Bar; a full blown lady boy bar right next to the Thai boxing ring! Near the Old Peak bars on Thapae Soi 1 is M2M, or and newly opened at The Thapae Palace Hotel is HISO Spa
The Wall - Massage facilities
To the north of town in Chang Puek district, where most of Chiang Mai’s gay venues are located, you can relax at the Marn Mai Massage, or Gemini, close to the New My Way host bar. Gemini always seems to have cute boys but is rather overpriced with mediocre facilities. New in the area is Massage by Club M (same Club M as the infamous karaoke).
Other massage venues include River House, by the same people as Classic House and, as the name suggests, located in picturesque surroundings right on the river. Mystic Orient is in Chang Moi district, near Thapae whilst Sanctuary Spa is near Chang Mai gate opposite the Chinese consulate and newcomer Marspa is in the same soi as House of Male.
Many of the massage places are difficult to find, even with our map, so we have generated a special Google map of Chiang Mai Gay Massage Establishments, you can see the small version below follow the link for full size. There is also our downloadable list of venues with addresses in Thai you can show to a Tuk-Tuk driver, which includes all the massage places. Apart from getting a massage this should give you plenty of other ideas of places to go and enjoy in Chiang Mai.
Have fun but please remember to play safe and use a condom!
View Chiang Mai Gay Massage and Spa – Locations in a larger map
Or for more information visit our Gay Massage directory page
2 Brothers
Blue Club
Classic House
His Club
Gemini
Hiso Spa
M2M
Marn Mai
Marspa
Massage by ClubM
Mystic Orient Massage
One 2 Come
River House Massage
Sanctuary Spa
The Wall
Victory Massage
Welcome to the Radchada Cafe's website about Gay Chiang Mai. Here you will find all the latest news about gay life in Chiang Mai and a full guide to all the latest venues including interactive maps.
Click on the navigation tabs at the top of every page to access our Gay Guide to Chiang Mai.
Radchada Cafe is a non-commercial website written by gay people for the benefit of the gay community. If you like the site or have any suggestions please leave a comment to let us know.
If you run a gay venue in Chiang Mai, please let us know about any special events or new things you have going on. Coverage here is free!
Thank you for visiting.
K. Note and the Bon Tong team
A boutique café located in a Lanna Style teak wood mansion hidden in a tranquil garden oasis in the Santitham area of Chiang Mai. Extremely gay friendly.
Enjoy breakfast, morning coffee, light lunch, Pasta dishes, Radchada’s speciality: thin crust Pizza, afternoon tea or early evening cocktails in a peaceful garden and soak up the ambiance of the Lanna Kingdom’s bygone era. For more information visitwww.radchada-cafe.com
If you are unfamiliar with Chiang Mai don't forget to download our Quick Reference Guide to all the Gay venues. A complete listing you can print on one page including addresses and directions in Thai for your taxi/TukTuk driver who can take you right to where the action is.
The best Gay Community Magazine in Thailand
The leading lifestyle magazine in gay Thailand
Gay News from Dragoncastle If you are wondering why many links and posts on this site relate to Burma and the Shan State the reason is simple. Many friends of Radchada Cafe come from the Shan State in South East Burma which borders Thailand, Laos and China.
Shan State is one of the most oppressed parts of Burma where atrocities committed by the Junta against the Shan people are widespread. As a result, many have fled to Thailand and try to survive here as refugees despite less than welcoming treatment by the Thai authorities. To find out more about the Shan, known as "Tai Yai" in Thai, visit some of the links above.
Probably 90% of the young men you will meet in Chiang Mai's host bars and other similar commercial gay venues come from the Shan State, as well as guys from other hill tribe minorities who are denied Thai citizenship. Although mainly straight, the Shan have had a significant effect on the gay farang scene in Chiang Mai, for this reason we try to inform our readers about the Shan people and their problems.
One organisation in Chiang Mai supporting the people of Burma is:
They run a number of operations in Chiang Mai, Mae Sot and Burma to help refugees providing welfare, support and education. Why not visit the best friend library in Chiang Mai on Nimanhemin Rd Soi 13.
The Best Friend depends entirely on voluntary contributions for all their work. You can support their projects with a monetary donation or by donating books, computers or school supplies.
Irawaddy – news from Burma 
Wow, mobile-phone contracts are easier to read than these pricing structures!